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Harry, former Prince and Duke of Sussex

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The Duke of Sussex is no longer a member of the Royal Family per se; he is a relative of royals but he is not technically a "royal;" he has left that life. He should not be listed in an order of precedence. 98.10.165.90 (talk) 16:51, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Duke of Sussex is one of the sovereign's grandsons, as is Peter Phillips. Neither are working royals but then neither are retired royals. They should all still appear in the order of precedence. Geofpick (talk) 18:49, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sisters of a sovereign when not accompanied by her husband

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I notice that a (currently vacent) spot exists for sisters and sisters-in-law of a sovereign when accompanying their husbands. However, there is no spot for these women on the list of female members of the royal family when not accompanying their husbands. It's not an urgent gap that needs filling as Princess Margaret has passed and this won't come into question until Charles becomes king and Anne and Sophie fit this description, but worth looking at in advance. Do they go in the same spot, after the sovereign's granddaughters? Based on the reasoning, sisters would go above any in-law daughters or granddaughters because they are born royal, while sister-in-law would probably go after the daughters-in-law (and maybe granddaughters-in-law?) Can anyone shed some light on this? Piratesswoop (talk) 18:47, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see that Debretts (https://debretts.com/royal-family/tables-of-precedence/#TABLE_OF_PRECEDENCE_AMONGST_LADIES_IN_ENGLAND_WALES) puts sisters of the sovereign ahead of daughters and granddaughters, whereas the list on this page now puts sisters of the sovereign behind daughters and granddaughters. Note that the Debretts list is assuming the ladies are NOT accompanied by their husbands -- Sophie would presumably come ahead of Anne if accompanied by Edward -- but the relative placement of the sovereign's *siblings* and the sovereign's *descendants* seems to be a discrepancy. Does anyone know why this is, and which we should follow? mooncow 15:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nephews and Nieces of the King

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Will these be place on the order of precedence:

  1. First Marriage
  2. Lady Sarah McCorquodale
    1. Emily McCorquodale (born 2 July 1983)
    2. George McCorquodale (born 17 November 1984)
    3. Celia McCorquodale (born 1989)
  3. Jane Fellowes, Baroness Fellowes
    1. The Honourable Laura Fellowes (born 19 July 1980)
    2. The Honourable Alexander Fellowes (born 23 March 1983)
    3. The Honourable Eleanor Fellowes (born 20 August 1985)
  4. Charles Spencer, 9th Earl Spencer
    1. Lady Kitty Spencer (born 28 December 1990)
    2. Lady Eliza Victoria Spencer (born 10 July 1992)
    3. Lady Katya Amelia Spencer (born 10 July 1992)
    4. Louis Spencer, Viscount Althorp (born 14 March 1994)
    5. The Honourable Edmund Spencer (born 6 October 2003)
    6. Lady Lara Spencer (born 16 March 2006)
    7. Lady Charlotte Spencer (born 30 July 2012)
  5. Second Marriage
  6. Annabel Elliot
    1. Ben Elliot (born 11 August 1975)
    2. Alice Elliot (born 1977)
    3. Catherine Elliot (born 1981)
  7. Mark Shand
    1. Ayesha Shand (born 1995)

Just an idea. 86.191.234.132 (talk) 17:30, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Only the "blood" nephews and nieces have official precedence as members of the Royal Family. The people you mentioned above are accorded precedence based on their relations to peers only. The new female order of precedence in the main article is wrong though as Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie, Lady Louise and Zara Phillips were not given precedence as nieces of the King, but rather as granddaughters of a former Sovereign.177.76.165.28 (talk) 19:50, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wives of royal grandsons of former Sovereigns who are not Dukes

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A revision on 17 July 2022 appears to have removed the Countess of Snowdon. Should she appear in the above category between the Duchess of Kent and Princess Michael of Kent, in the same way that her husband appears between the Duke of Kent and Prince Michael of Kent? The separation between herself and her husband presumably does not affect her precedence. She was removed from the template on 9th August 2020, so if she is restored to the Order of Precedence she should presumably also be restored to the template. Her own article has a succession box giving her precedence between Zara Tindall and Lady Sarah Chatto. Thoughts? Alekksandr (talk) 17:42, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Both George, Earl of Harewood and his wife Patricia, Countess of Harewood, grandson of a former sovereign who was not a duke and his wife, were denied place in the list here on this article while they were alive. I remember this because I argued for their inclusion. So, why is the Earl of Snowdon here included? Kowalmistrz (talk) 08:19, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Secretaries of State

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Jeremy Hunt is not at present a Secretary of State, therefore his highest is rank Privy Counsellor, unlike Oliver Dowden who is a Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office @DrKay Shacharrz (talk) 09:09, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Titles of the Susex's

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Shouldn't the Duke and Duchess of Sussex still be aloud to have there HRH even though they don't use them? As well as there children. JAMAMBTGE (talk) 21:44, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Precedence in Practice

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I've been looking through the orders of service for Elizabeth II's funeral, then her committal, then her son's coronation, as well as Commonwealth Day in 2022 and 2023, specifically the part about processions. It looks as if de facto precedence differs a little from what we have here. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 15:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Commonwealth Day 2022

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Elizabeth II did not personally attend this. The Duke & Duchess of Gloucester were there but did not join the procession.

Left column Right column
Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall Charles, Prince of Wales
Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge William, Duke of Cambridge
Alexandra, Lady Ogilvy

Funeral

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Louis of Wales is left out. Divorced Andrew walks unaccompanied. Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester is also missing for some reason. The Princess Royal is placed ahead of the Countess of Wessex, even though formally the monarch's sisters by marriage outrank his sisters by blood. This even extends to putting Sir Tim ahead of Prince Edward, despite the former technically having no precedence at all!

Left column Right column
Queen Camilla King Charles
Sir Tim Laurence Anne, Princess Royal
Andrew, Duke of York
Sophie, Countess of Wessex Edward, Earl of Wessex
Catherine, Princess of Wales William, Prince of Wales
Charlotte of Wales George of Wales
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex Harry, Duke of Sussex
David, Earl of Snowdon Peter Philips
Richard, Duke of Gloucester
Michael of Kent Edward, Duke of Kent

Committal

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The committal has the same order as the funeral, save that George and Charlotte are omitted.

Left column Right column
Queen Camilla King Charles
Sir Tim Laurence Anne, Princess Royal
Andrew, Duke of York
Sophie, Countess of Wessex Edward, Earl of Wessex
Catherine, Princess of Wales William, Prince of Wales
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex Harry, Duke of Sussex
David, Earl of Snowdon Peter Philips
Richard, Duke of Gloucester
Michael of Kent Edward, Duke of Kent

Commonwealth Day 2023

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This was a much smaller procession so fewer lessons can be learned from it, but those who were there generally followed the expected order.

Left column Right column
Queen Camilla King Charles
Catherine, Princess of Wales William, Prince of Wales
Sophie, Countess of Wessex Edward, Earl of Wessex
Sir Tim Laurence Anne, Princess Royal

Coronation

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The King & Queen each had their own elaborate entourages of pages and attendants (one of which was Prince George) so I've left them out of the table. Charlotte moves to the right column and Louis takes her place in the left. The King's heir apparent and grandchildren are above his collateral relatives as per the known order, but for some reason his niblings James and Louise are put ahead of his sister. The Duchess of Gloucester is back in this one, but York and the Sussexes are left out (understandable) as are the Kents, Phillipses and Snowdons (less so).

Left column Right column
Catherine, Princess of Wales William, Prince of Wales
Louis of Wales Charlotte of Wales
Sophie, Duchess of Edinburgh Edward, Duke of Edinburgh
Louise Windsor James, Earl of Wessex
Sir Tim Laurence Anne, Princess Royal
Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester Richard, Duke of Gloucester

Commonwealth Day 2024

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The King and the Princess of Wales were both off work due to cancer, so here we have William in the left column and Camilla in the right. Sir Tim is absent here.

Left column Right column
William, Prince of Wales Queen Camilla
Sophie, Duchess of Edinburgh Edward, Duke of Edinburgh
Anne, Princess Royal
Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester Richard, Duke of Gloucester
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